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Home » College Baseball Clubhouse » PG TOP 25: The latest CBB rankings (4/18)

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4/18/2011 10:52:10 AM

Kendall
Kendall
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Posts: 7492
Here are the latest Top 25 rankings at PG ..... enjoy!

http://www.perfectgame.org/Articles/View.aspx?article=5498

--
Kendall Rogers, College Baseball Managing Editor
Follow me on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/#!/KendallRogersPG
Email me: mailto:kendall@perfectgame.org
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4/18/2011 10:57:53 AM

USCbaseballguy
USCbaseballguy
Posts: 6
You will probably catch some slack for moving South Carolina over UVA. But, I think if you look at the teams they have each beaten it is the right move. They are both solid clubs, but I think so far this season South Carolina has done more to deserve the ranking.
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4/18/2011 11:04:54 AM

Kendall
Kendall
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Posts: 7492
USCbaseballguy wrote:
You will probably catch some slack for moving South Carolina over UVA. But, I think if you look at the teams they have each beaten it is the right move. They are both solid clubs, but I think so far this season South Carolina has done more to deserve the ranking.


South Carolina has more impressive weekend series wins. Period. That's not even debatable.

--
Kendall Rogers, College Baseball Managing Editor
Follow me on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/#!/KendallRogersPG
Email me: mailto:kendall@perfectgame.org
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4/18/2011 11:18:36 AM

HooBaseball
HooBaseball
Posts: 12
Kendall, can someone explain to me why in college baseball, midweek losses don't seem to "count." I think South Carolina had a horrible midweek loss getting shutout by a bad team, while UVA had a very impressive midweek win against Coastal Carolina. It's true that USC's series win was more impressive than UVa's THIS WEEK. But how quickly you forget that UVA won the series on the road against an awesome GT team LAST WEEK. Shouldn't the rankings be based on overall season performance, not just one week. Isn't UVA like #2 in RPI?
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4/18/2011 11:30:47 AM

maverickcav
maverickcav
Posts: 5
Along with USC's impressive series wins includes some unimpressive losses. #1 ranked clubs dont get shutout by teams with a sub 150 RPI.
edited by maverickcav on 4/18/2011
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4/18/2011 11:31:18 AM

USCbaseballguy
USCbaseballguy
Posts: 6
We have weekend series wins over Cal State Bakersfield, Clemson, Florida @FL, and Vandy. I think what he was saying is based on the whole year SC's weekend series performance has been much more impressive. And in my own opinion no Mid week games don't count for a whole lot. The committee has shown they dont look at one or two bad losses during mid week action affect the teams seeding at all.
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4/18/2011 11:43:31 AM

maverickcav
maverickcav
Posts: 5
USCbaseballguy wrote:
We have weekend series wins over Cal State Bakersfield, Clemson, Florida @FL, and Vandy. I think what he was saying is based on the whole year SC's weekend series performance has been much more impressive. And in my own opinion no Mid week games don't count for a whole lot. The committee has shown they dont look at one or two bad losses during mid week action affect the teams seeding at all.


True but compared to wins over ECU, @Clemson (sweep), FSU and @GT I dont see a huge difference in those four series. Big difference however when you see two USC losses to sub 100 rpi clubs. Good news is that unlike college football, this is decided on the field and not in the polls.

The argument over rankings aside, USC looks very impressive again. Congrats on your win over Vandy. That was fun series to watch and I'm glad I got see two of those games. Thank goodness for DVR's.
edited by maverickcav on 4/18/2011
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4/18/2011 11:50:42 AM

Kendall
Kendall
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Posts: 7492
HooBaseball wrote:
Kendall, can someone explain to me why in college baseball, midweek losses don't seem to "count." I think South Carolina had a horrible midweek loss getting shutout by a bad team, while UVA had a very impressive midweek win against Coastal Carolina. It's true that USC's series win was more impressive than UVa's THIS WEEK. But how quickly you forget that UVA won the series on the road against an awesome GT team LAST WEEK. Shouldn't the rankings be based on overall season performance, not just one week. Isn't UVA like #2 in RPI?


Great question. I said this on Twitter earlier today, but I put about 85 percent of my rankings weight on weekend games. Midweek games are good for the record, but what's more important, taking care of business on the weekend or winning a midweek game against Georgetown or The Citadel? No question, the weekend. And BTW, I was there for for the Virginia-Georgia Tech series, so I absolutely love the Cavaliers' club. But right now, I think South Carolina has done more on the weekend than Virginia has. But honestly, you could go either way and you wouldn't be wrong. Both teams are simply fantastic, and that's that.

--
Kendall Rogers, College Baseball Managing Editor
Follow me on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/#!/KendallRogersPG
Email me: mailto:kendall@perfectgame.org
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4/18/2011 12:06:59 PM

HooBaseball
HooBaseball
Posts: 12
Kendall wrote:
HooBaseball wrote:
Kendall, can someone explain to me why in college baseball, midweek losses don't seem to "count." I think South Carolina had a horrible midweek loss getting shutout by a bad team, while UVA had a very impressive midweek win against Coastal Carolina. It's true that USC's series win was more impressive than UVa's THIS WEEK. But how quickly you forget that UVA won the series on the road against an awesome GT team LAST WEEK. Shouldn't the rankings be based on overall season performance, not just one week. Isn't UVA like #2 in RPI?


Great question. I said this on Twitter earlier today, but I put about 85 percent of my rankings weight on weekend games. Midweek games are good for the record, but what's more important, taking care of business on the weekend or winning a midweek game against Georgetown or The Citadel? No question, the weekend. And BTW, I was there for for the Virginia-Georgia Tech series, so I absolutely love the Cavaliers' club. But right now, I think South Carolina has done more on the weekend than Virginia has. But honestly, you could go either way and you wouldn't be wrong. Both teams are simply fantastic, and that's that.


Kendall,

I agree with you that the midweek games aren't as important, but the fact that UVA has not dropped a single midweek game this season speaks to their pitching depth (maybe making them a bit stronger than other teams in the postseason). Also, if midweeks aren't going to help or penalize a team due a respective win or loss, why do the teams even play their starters in these games? Why not let all the freshmen play and get them experience, while resting all the starters and avoiding any injuries? But, no teams do this that I'm aware of, so I think teams should be held accountable for midweek losses, afterall they did still have their starting lineup in the game, just not your starting pitchers.
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4/18/2011 12:08:08 PM

maverickcav
maverickcav
Posts: 5
Kendall wrote:
HooBaseball wrote:
Kendall, can someone explain to me why in college baseball, midweek losses don't seem to "count." I think South Carolina had a horrible midweek loss getting shutout by a bad team, while UVA had a very impressive midweek win against Coastal Carolina. It's true that USC's series win was more impressive than UVa's THIS WEEK. But how quickly you forget that UVA won the series on the road against an awesome GT team LAST WEEK. Shouldn't the rankings be based on overall season performance, not just one week. Isn't UVA like #2 in RPI?


Great question. I said this on Twitter earlier today, but I put about 85 percent of my rankings weight on weekend games. Midweek games are good for the record, but what's more important, taking care of business on the weekend or winning a midweek game against Georgetown or The Citadel? No question, the weekend. And BTW, I was there for for the Virginia-Georgia Tech series, so I absolutely love the Cavaliers' club. But right now, I think South Carolina has done more on the weekend than Virginia has. But honestly, you could go either way and you wouldn't be wrong. Both teams are simply fantastic, and that's that.


I dont necessarily disagree with your premise, but seriously, do #1 clubs lose to 14-22 teams? Apparently they do. Plus, part of USC fans argument for his club is a win over Clemson on, watch for it now - a Tuesday. Based on this USC is only .500 vs Clemson, no?
edited by maverickcav on 4/18/2011
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4/18/2011 12:13:17 PM

HookemHorns
HookemHorns
Posts: 1
Kendall wrote:
But honestly, you could go either way and you wouldn't be wrong. Both teams are simply fantastic, and that's that.


Honestly, if you could go either way than why choose the team with the better record.
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4/18/2011 12:17:57 PM

Kendall
Kendall
Administrator
Posts: 7492
HookemHorns wrote:
Kendall wrote:
But honestly, you could go either way and you wouldn't be wrong. Both teams are simply fantastic, and that's that.


Honestly, if you could go either way than why choose the team with the better record.


Because that'd be extremely lazy to not do research and just automatically rank the team with the better record. Furthermore, South Carolina has a SOS of 10, Virginia has a SOS of 27. Not a huge different, but it's a different and can be used as part of the criteria for ranking a team over another.

--
Kendall Rogers, College Baseball Managing Editor
Follow me on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/#!/KendallRogersPG
Email me: mailto:kendall@perfectgame.org
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4/18/2011 12:23:38 PM

maverickcav
maverickcav
Posts: 5
Kendall wrote:
Because that'd be extremely lazy to not do research and just automatically rank the team with the better record. Furthermore, South Carolina has a SOS of 10, Virginia has a SOS of 27. Not a huge different, but it's a different and can be used as part of the criteria for ranking a team over another.


True. You can also use RPI, record vs. top 25, record against common opponents, overall record, record vs. teams with 100-200 RPI to evaluate bad losses, home and road records and mid-week record (since that counts 15% :>. If we're talking all the factors we can use, how does the scale tip then?
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4/18/2011 12:24:47 PM

Wahoo301
Wahoo301
Posts: 2
HookemHorns wrote:
Honestly, if you could go either way than why choose the team with the better record.


Or the team with the higher RPI, or the team you previously had ranked higher... you could go on and on, but at the end of the day, it's an opinion. People come to this website because they care about his opinion. He explained his reasoning, what more do you want?
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4/18/2011 12:51:31 PM

Tommy Salami
Tommy Salami
Posts: 35
Well lets compare the weekend series. 2 out of 3 @ UF > 2 out of 3 @ GT, 2 out of 3 from Vandy at home > 2 out of 3 from FSU at home, 2 out of 3 from UGA at home > 2 out of 3 from ECU at home, then both took series from Clemson with UVA sweeping which is the only comparison in which UVA gets the nod. Then SCs series win over Cal State Bakersfield is more impressive than UVAs next best series win. So yes, SC has a more impressive resume of weekend series wins than UVA does. UVA has performed better in the midweek but SC has been more impressive on the weekends.
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4/18/2011 1:51:47 PM

BeaverQuist
BeaverQuist
Posts: 112
Was shocked to see Oregon State only move up 1 spot. Not that I really care all that much as you can make arguments for a lot of different teams in the 5-10 spot. But I just feel based on going on the last 3 weekends, that OSU would be a Top 5 team as of right now.

I'm kinda thinking you might be holding those two Fresno St loses (by one run in each game) against them... I could be wrong. Either way, I'm happy to see OSU in the Top 10 again. It's be awhile.

A&M shouldn't be Number 5 in my opinion. I don't think they have been as impressive as Oregon State or CS Fullerton recently. RPI is also behind them.

I feel the same way with Texas.

Just my thoughts though... but as always Kendall... I love your work and I couldn't do a better job. Looking forward to reading the chat transcript on some of the questions.
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4/18/2011 3:38:10 PM

USCbaseballguy
USCbaseballguy
Posts: 6
maverickcav wrote:
USCbaseballguy wrote:
We have weekend series wins over Cal State Bakersfield, Clemson, Florida @FL, and Vandy. I think what he was saying is based on the whole year SC's weekend series performance has been much more impressive. And in my own opinion no Mid week games don't count for a whole lot. The committee has shown they dont look at one or two bad losses during mid week action affect the teams seeding at all.


True but compared to wins over ECU, @Clemson (sweep), FSU and @GT I dont see a huge difference in those four series. Big difference however when you see two USC losses to sub 100 rpi clubs. Good news is that unlike college football, this is decided on the field and not in the polls.

The argument over rankings aside, USC looks very impressive again. Congrats on your win over Vandy. That was fun series to watch and I'm glad I got see two of those games. Thank goodness for DVR's.
edited by maverickcav on 4/18/2011


I think we will have to agree to disagree on the quality of the weekend wins then. Because to me 2/3 vs clemson, florida @ florida, and vandy at home is much more impressive. The sweep of clemson is certainly better then two of three vs the same clemson team. But, FSU isnt as good as vandy, and I think Florida would beat GT as well. Also Cal state vs ecu is a favorable match up to me as well. When you add in a more then decent UGA club, I think as kendall said the weekend resumes are not really debateable. But, dont take me wrong I would love to play UVA I respect their program and, their team. You guys look to be loaded again this year, and I would love the chance to see our two teams match up in the post season. I wish you all the best of luck and think you guys have one hell of a team.
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4/18/2011 6:45:34 PM

Carolina Mike
Carolina Mike
Posts: 51
I see very little difference between S.Carolina and UVA at this point in the season, and believe you could make a coin toss between the two.I have been a great fan of Brian O'Connor and his success in the last 6 or so years at Virginia.Their body of work the last 4 years is as good as any team in the country despite being sent out west several times undeservingly.Danny Hultzen is the best pitcher that I have seen since David Price at Vandy in recent years.Maybe this one is just too close to cal at this point.Congrats to the Virginia program and here's to hopefully meeting deep in the postseason.
edited by Carolina Mike on 4/18/2011

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Baseball is like church....many attend but few understand.
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4/18/2011 7:59:55 PM

maverickcav
maverickcav
Posts: 5
USCbaseballguy wrote:
maverickcav wrote:
USCbaseballguy wrote:
We have weekend series wins over Cal State Bakersfield, Clemson, Florida @FL, and Vandy. I think what he was saying is based on the whole year SC's weekend series performance has been much more impressive. And in my own opinion no Mid week games don't count for a whole lot. The committee has shown they dont look at one or two bad losses during mid week action affect the teams seeding at all.


True but compared to wins over ECU, @Clemson (sweep), FSU and @GT I dont see a huge difference in those four series. Big difference however when you see two USC losses to sub 100 rpi clubs. Good news is that unlike college football, this is decided on the field and not in the polls.

The argument over rankings aside, USC looks very impressive again. Congrats on your win over Vandy. That was fun series to watch and I'm glad I got see two of those games. Thank goodness for DVR's.
edited by maverickcav on 4/18/2011


I think we will have to agree to disagree on the quality of the weekend wins then. Because to me 2/3 vs clemson, florida @ florida, and vandy at home is much more impressive. The sweep of clemson is certainly better then two of three vs the same clemson team. But, FSU isnt as good as vandy, and I think Florida would beat GT as well. Also Cal state vs ecu is a favorable match up to me as well. When you add in a more then decent UGA club, I think as kendall said the weekend resumes are not really debateable. But, dont take me wrong I would love to play UVA I respect their program and, their team. You guys look to be loaded again this year, and I would love the chance to see our two teams match up in the post season. I wish you all the best of luck and think you guys have one hell of a team.


USC – I feel the same way about the National Champions. I will add that I too hope we get to meet in post season because that likely means we’re both in Omaha. I’ve always felt our regional loss to USC several years ago was a turning point for the VA program because our kids and coaches really learned what kind of moxy and gravitas is needed to win at that level. Grace and congeniality aside, I will make one final comment on the issue of the day.

First, why speculate –Florida has lost 3 of 4 to Florida State – a team Virginia took down 2-1 on the road. Easy comparison. Could GT beat Vandy? I think you could make a case for both but I’ll stipulate that Vandy would win so at this point we’re even. You’ve already noted the head-to-head with Clemson so that’s another UVA advantage and you may give CSB an advantage but the RPI gives it to ECU. I’d also argue that considering CSB has collected 10 wins over teams with 200+ RPI and is 3-5 vs. top 50 clubs – I’d call then suspect.

Finally, I would submit that the 2 USC mid-week losses to above 100 RPI teams mitigate any advantage Georgia gives you. In the end, 4 of the 5 polls ultimately agreed with me.
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4/19/2011 6:05:12 AM

Out of Conference
Out of Conference
Posts: 25
maverickcav wrote:
Kendall wrote:
HooBaseball wrote:
Kendall, can someone explain to me why in college baseball, midweek losses don't seem to "count." I think South Carolina had a horrible midweek loss getting shutout by a bad team, while UVA had a very impressive midweek win against Coastal Carolina. It's true that USC's series win was more impressive than UVa's THIS WEEK. But how quickly you forget that UVA won the series on the road against an awesome GT team LAST WEEK. Shouldn't the rankings be based on overall season performance, not just one week. Isn't UVA like #2 in RPI?


Great question. I said this on Twitter earlier today, but I put about 85 percent of my rankings weight on weekend games. Midweek games are good for the record, but what's more important, taking care of business on the weekend or winning a midweek game against Georgetown or The Citadel? No question, the weekend. And BTW, I was there for for the Virginia-Georgia Tech series, so I absolutely love the Cavaliers' club. But right now, I think South Carolina has done more on the weekend than Virginia has. But honestly, you could go either way and you wouldn't be wrong. Both teams are simply fantastic, and that's that.


I dont necessarily disagree with your premise, but seriously, do #1 clubs lose to 14-22 teams? Apparently they do. Plus, part of USC fans argument for his club is a win over Clemson on, watch for it now - a Tuesday. Based on this USC is only .500 vs Clemson, no?
edited by maverickcav on 4/18/2011


That Tuesday game against Clemson was, watch for it now, a make-up game from the rained out Saturday game so it featured weekend pitching. Just keeping winning Hoo, most polls have you as #1 and I don't disagree with that. I find it refreshing that Ken uses his own opinions to determine his poll and I don't disagree with USC being #1 in his poll for the reason he gives. You want to prove your the #1 team? Don't get run out of your own super-regional this year.
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