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3/27/2011 3:43:54 PM

Heels2Omaha
Heels2Omaha
Posts: 81
Has any team from one of the major leagues ever been 23-3 and not found themselves in the top 10?

I doubt Kendall and others move UNC that far tomorrow, but if you're ranking the season to this point and not what your expectations were going in, there's no way to keep them out.
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3/27/2011 6:49:50 PM

ACC Fan
ACC Fan
Posts: 49
They should be Top 10 for sure...at least they are Top 5 in the RPI. Just goes to show you how pre-season rankings effect the polls. The Heels will get their chances though, so it won't really have any effect on their ability to host regionals and super-regionals, as long as they take care of business. The Coastal can make the claim it's the strongest division in baseball...Virginia, Georgia Tech & N. Carolina are playing as good as anyone in the country at the moment. It's really going to be interesting to see how it plays out. The Heels and Cavs won't settle it until the last week of the season, which is a good thing, in my opinion.
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3/27/2011 11:28:32 PM


Guest
I think UNC will take the # 10 spot this week. With LSU dropping 2 of 3 to Georgia, they should fall out of the top 10. Not much movement as far as significant wins and losses ahead of that. # 9 Texas A&M swept Kansas, # 8 Okies split 2 games,#7 FSU 2 of 3 from Wake, # 6 South Carolina 2of 3 from Florida. UNC has a great body of work to date in my opinion, but RPI's, SOS, and ISR'S mean very little at this point of the season.We'll know a lot more about everyone in about 3 more weeks in my opinion.Mike Fox has done a great job with his young club
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3/28/2011 12:28:38 AM

Kendall
Kendall
Administrator
Posts: 7490
I think UNC will take the # 10 spot this week. With LSU dropping 2 of 3 to Georgia, they should fall out of the top 10. Not much movement as far as significant wins and losses ahead of that. # 9 Texas A&M swept Kansas, # 8 Okies split 2 games,#7 FSU 2 of 3 from Wake, # 6 South Carolina 2of 3 from Florida. UNC has a great body of work to date in my opinion, but RPI's, SOS, and ISR'S mean very little at this point of the season.We'll know a lot more about everyone in about 3 more weeks in my opinion.Mike Fox has done a great job with his young club


I absolutely love what the Tar Heels are doing this season, but I think the big thing holding them back right now is the fact they don't have a lot of marquee wins outside of that one win over Fullerton. It has hurt them to start ACC play with Virginia Tech, Wake Forest (a series they lost) and Duke. Take care of business against the big boys in the ACC and you'll be exactly where you should be. No question about it. Doesn't diminish, either way, the job that Coach Fox and his staff are doing this season.

--
Kendall Rogers, College Baseball Managing Editor
Follow me on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/#!/KendallRogersPG
Email me: mailto:kendall@perfectgame.org
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3/28/2011 2:25:41 AM

Heels2Omaha
Heels2Omaha
Posts: 81
Kendall wrote:
I think UNC will take the # 10 spot this week. With LSU dropping 2 of 3 to Georgia, they should fall out of the top 10. Not much movement as far as significant wins and losses ahead of that. # 9 Texas A&M swept Kansas, # 8 Okies split 2 games,#7 FSU 2 of 3 from Wake, # 6 South Carolina 2of 3 from Florida. UNC has a great body of work to date in my opinion, but RPI's, SOS, and ISR'S mean very little at this point of the season.We'll know a lot more about everyone in about 3 more weeks in my opinion.Mike Fox has done a great job with his young club


I absolutely love what the Tar Heels are doing this season, but I think the big thing holding them back right now is the fact they don't have a lot of marquee wins outside of that one win over Fullerton. It has hurt them to start ACC play with Virginia Tech, Wake Forest (a series they lost) and Duke. Take care of business against the big boys in the ACC and you'll be exactly where you should be. No question about it. Doesn't diminish, either way, the job that Coach Fox and his staff are doing this season.



Kendall,

You know I respect what you do and appreciate it, but this is a complete cop-out. #1 you did not answer the original question because you know the answer. NO, there has never been a team from one of the major conferences go 23-3 and not be in the top 10. I'd venture to say there has never been one with that kind of record not in your top 3. The simple truth is that you're relying so heavily on your pre-formed opinion of what UNC would be this season that you won't admit that you had them entirely underranked for weeks now and needed to make a major correction there.

Let's do it this way....make a case for 10 teams that need to be ranked higher.

We're talking about a team with the 2nd most wins in the country (1 behind the team with the most wins), 3rd best record by winning percentage, and top 5 in RPI, ISR, NPI and every other imaginable measuring device used in the sport.

You're wrong in one thing though....it does diminish. It's honestly insulting that the national source of news about the sport is plainly ignoring one of the best starts in the country.
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3/28/2011 7:08:51 AM

GTbaseball
GTbaseball
Posts: 103
UNC lost a series to Wake Forest. Wake Forest.

Just hold your horses for top 10 buddy and wait your turn.
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3/28/2011 7:48:49 AM

Heels2Omaha
Heels2Omaha
Posts: 81
Ok...at least you're making an argument. Let's look at it. Had UNC held the lead on Sunday at Wake, they'd be 24-2. At that point would you have them top 10....top 5? So basically, we're saying that 26 games into the season, one inning is worth 10 spots in the national polls? I fully understand that losing a series to Wake Forest is horrible. I was griping more than anyone on the planet after that one. Everyone conveniently ignores that UNC lost not 1 but 2 starting pitchers to injury in that series. Those kids are back now....magically, so are the results. Which is more indicative of the team you're discussing....those two flukish days in Winston or the other 24 games this team has played (which they've won 23 of)?

Georgia Tech has lost to St John's, Georgia Southern, Georgia State (who in the world is that?!?), and Kent State. That's baseball....it happens. Somehow though, they aren't being judge by those losses. For the record, I don't think that they should. They're a fantastic club and ranked where they should be...in the upper echelon of the nation. I'm just saying that the standards are differently applied and it's fair to call it out.

GTbaseball wrote:
UNC lost a series to Wake Forest. Wake Forest.

Just hold your horses for top 10 buddy and wait your turn.
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3/28/2011 9:21:16 AM

istrahan
istrahan
Posts: 2
If your best series win to date is Stony Brook, I think it's a weak argument at best that you should be a top 10 team.
Based strictly on the results of this season, I'd at least have Florida, Vandy, USCe, Virginia, GaTech, FSU, Fresno State, AZ State, Stetson, TAMU, and Texas ahead of UNC. So I'd have you somewhere between 12-15th.
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3/28/2011 9:34:02 AM

Heels2Omaha
Heels2Omaha
Posts: 81
I guess if you're going to ignore beating Cal Poly, Southern Cal, Missouri, and Fullerton all in a 3 day span 3000 miles from Chapel Hill, you'd be correct about Stony Brook.

istrahan wrote:
If your best series win to date is Stony Brook, I think it's a weak argument at best that you should be a top 10 team.
Based strictly on the results of this season, I'd at least have Florida, Vandy, USCe, Virginia, GaTech, FSU, Fresno State, AZ State, Stetson, TAMU, and Texas ahead of UNC. So I'd have you somewhere between 12-15th.
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3/28/2011 9:37:30 AM

gamecocks1
gamecocks1
Posts: 10
I think what Georgia Tech has done to this point of the season is much more impressive to me. They have more of an argument than NC. However, both have very good teams and like Kendall mentioned, if they keep winning they will keep moving up.
edited by gamecocks1 on 3/28/2011
edited by gamecocks1 on 3/28/2011
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3/28/2011 9:47:45 AM

Heels2Omaha
Heels2Omaha
Posts: 81
gamecocks1 wrote:
I think what Georgia Tech has done to this point of the season is much more impressive to me. They have more of an argument than NC. However, both have very good teams and like Kendal mentioned, if they keep winning they will keep moving up.
edited by gamecocks1 on 3/28/2011



I agree with you completely. GT has been extremely impressive. I was merely pointing out that Georgia Tech isn't limited by isolated poor performances in their rankings.
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3/28/2011 9:53:45 AM

gamecocks1
gamecocks1
Posts: 10
If UNC takes the series against Clemson this weekend on a road trip, they should be firmly entrenched in the top 10. I personally hope they sweep dem Tiggers!
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3/28/2011 10:00:39 AM

istrahan
istrahan
Posts: 2
Heels2Omaha wrote:
I guess if you're going to ignore beating Cal Poly, Southern Cal, Missouri, and Fullerton all in a 3 day span 3000 miles from Chapel Hill, you'd be correct about Stony Brook.

istrahan wrote:
If your best series win to date is Stony Brook, I think it's a weak argument at best that you should be a top 10 team.
Based strictly on the results of this season, I'd at least have Florida, Vandy, USCe, Virginia, GaTech, FSU, Fresno State, AZ State, Stetson, TAMU, and Texas ahead of UNC. So I'd have you somewhere between 12-15th.


Cal Poly and USC both have losing records and Missouri at .500 has series losses to Charlotte and UIC and an RPI around 150. So basically you played one decent team and won by a run. Congrats, but one good win doesn't make you a top 10 team.
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3/28/2011 11:50:38 AM

Yardcock96
Yardcock96
Posts: 22
Heels2Omaha wrote:
you did not answer the original question because you know the answer. NO, there has never been a team from one of the major conferences go 23-3 and not be in the top 10. I'd venture to say there has never been one with that kind of record not in your top 3

I checked the BA poll history and this is what I found:
2009 Virginia 22-4 ranked 24th
2008 Virginia 23-5 ranked 14th
2007 Kentucky 23-2 ranked 22nd
That was the oldest I could find for Baseball America's poll but it was far enough back to show you that in fact your Tarheels are not receiving the unprecedented lack of respect you thought was the case. Do please take out your frustrations on Clemson this weekend though.
edited by Yardcock96 on 3/28/2011
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3/28/2011 6:42:26 PM

ACC Fan
ACC Fan
Posts: 49
It'll be OK, I understand where Kendall is coming from. Personally, I think N. Carolina has done enough to be considered a top 10 team. I think the team that needs to prove itself is actually Vanderbilt, although, this weekend was a nice series win.

It should help you to know that the Heels are #6 in the USA Today/ESPN Coaches Poll, up 6 spots from last week. This poll has Virginia #1, which I think is justified, and Ga. Tech #10, which I think is ridiculous.

My Top 10 would be:

1. Virginia
2. S. Carolina
3. Florida
4. Georgia Tech
5. Vanderbilt
6. Florida State
7. Texas
8. Southern Mississippi
9. N. Carolina
10. Texas A&M
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3/28/2011 10:00:30 PM

Kendall
Kendall
Administrator
Posts: 7490
Heels2Omaha wrote:
Kendall wrote:
I think UNC will take the # 10 spot this week. With LSU dropping 2 of 3 to Georgia, they should fall out of the top 10. Not much movement as far as significant wins and losses ahead of that. # 9 Texas A&M swept Kansas, # 8 Okies split 2 games,#7 FSU 2 of 3 from Wake, # 6 South Carolina 2of 3 from Florida. UNC has a great body of work to date in my opinion, but RPI's, SOS, and ISR'S mean very little at this point of the season.We'll know a lot more about everyone in about 3 more weeks in my opinion.Mike Fox has done a great job with his young club


I absolutely love what the Tar Heels are doing this season, but I think the big thing holding them back right now is the fact they don't have a lot of marquee wins outside of that one win over Fullerton. It has hurt them to start ACC play with Virginia Tech, Wake Forest (a series they lost) and Duke. Take care of business against the big boys in the ACC and you'll be exactly where you should be. No question about it. Doesn't diminish, either way, the job that Coach Fox and his staff are doing this season.



Kendall,

You know I respect what you do and appreciate it, but this is a complete cop-out. #1 you did not answer the original question because you know the answer. NO, there has never been a team from one of the major conferences go 23-3 and not be in the top 10. I'd venture to say there has never been one with that kind of record not in your top 3. The simple truth is that you're relying so heavily on your pre-formed opinion of what UNC would be this season that you won't admit that you had them entirely underranked for weeks now and needed to make a major correction there.

Let's do it this way....make a case for 10 teams that need to be ranked higher.

We're talking about a team with the 2nd most wins in the country (1 behind the team with the most wins), 3rd best record by winning percentage, and top 5 in RPI, ISR, NPI and every other imaginable measuring device used in the sport.

You're wrong in one thing though....it does diminish. It's honestly insulting that the national source of news about the sport is plainly ignoring one of the best starts in the country.


Travis,
Great post and you knew I'd respond to you ... just didn't want to throw some BS answer up without actually throwing out some facts out there. First of all, if I remember correctly we were one of few outlets that had North Carolina ranked as high as we did to start the season, so I'm not sure you can chalk anything up as flat out "disrespect" or anything like that.

With that said, let's look at North Carolina and the teams ahead of it. UNC is suffering from the class thing that Georgia Tech has suffered from in the past, i.e., starting conference with the weakest opponents. On top of that, the Tar Heels LOST to one of those weak opponents, two of three.

Anyway, let's look at some teams ahead of UNC and compare marquee wins (especially on the weekend):

Texas: Stanford (2), Texas State (1),
Oklahoma: California (1)
TCU: Baylor (1), Texas Tech (3), Cal State Fullerton (1), Texas State (1)
Stanford: Rice (2), California (1), Vanderbilt (1), Texas (1), Long Beach State (2)
California:N.C. State (1), Rice (1), Long Beach State (1), Washington State (3)

NORTH CAROLINA: Cal State Fullerton (1), Elon (1), St. John's (1)

So, out of those teams, the Tar Heels have a legitimate comparison and beef with ONE of those teams on the list, Oklahoma. The comparisons would be pretty much the same if I took the teams above the listed teams, too.

North Carolina will get its due when it starts playing better teams in conference. There's a reason Georgia Tech didn't hop into our Top 5 until it swept Miami on the road over the weekend.

That's all.

Hope you're well bud!

--
Kendall Rogers, College Baseball Managing Editor
Follow me on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/#!/KendallRogersPG
Email me: mailto:kendall@perfectgame.org
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